Posts by Cold Steel

33

Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?

by EdenOne in

john 7:8-10.

"go up to the festival yourselves.

i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.

Cold Steel

You are correct, and I was wrong! Hasty read. However, the same basic idea applies. Jesus did not want to be noticed. He sent them knowing the Jews would expect him to be in their midst. And they did. He wanted to attend the feast, but did not want to hasten "his time," which was not yet. He didn't lie, nor did he change his mind. He didn't intend to show off miracle-wise in front of the Jews. Even some amongst his disciples wanted him to reveal himself and to lead a revolt against Rome. Judas probably was of this ilk.

42

Pets are false gods

by Rattigan350 in

i"m listening to the 2013 dc green bay saturday talk on false gods.. the speaker says no one would knowingly worship false deities.

but could we inadvertantly give jehovah less than exclusive devotion he deserves.. he said:you have not allowed this deception power of sin to sensual desires, material comforts, pets, technology, entertainment or food to become objects of devotion to you.. anything that interferes with our spiriutal routine has the power of eroding or weaking our relationship with jehovah.. .

my dogs can erode my relationship with jehovah.

Cold Steel

You people need to listen to the faithful and discreet slave! They're not saying you can't have a pet. You just shouldn't baby talk them or get all soupy when they die. In fact, it would be an excellent object lesson for you to buy your six-year old daughter a puppy, then, after a week or two, kill it in front of her to show how dedication to Jehovah can make her little life happier. Better yet, have her dispatch the puppy herself and tell her it's for Jehovah!

Pretty soon you can have her killing kittens, rabbits, squirrels and other small furry animals. Birds, too. If you can't eat a bird, kill it, because it will eat things that suffering humans could eat.

Anything that competes with Jehovah should be systematically dealt with, family members included. Why let a baby brother distract children from service to Jehovah? Just instruct them to ignore the crying and food preparation so you can map out your door to door routes. Your elders will appreciate the extra work.

And remember, when the elders are happy, Jehovah is happy!

When in doubt, snuff 'em out!

8

Jehovahs Witness Expectations of Eternity

by Cold Steel in

or do they believe they'll be able to visit other worlds without them?

when resurrected, would they be able to walk through walls as jesus did, or would they be able to create wormholes just by thinking about it and travel by their own power?

and when they had visited every known place in the universe, what would they do then?.

Cold Steel

If one asked a believing JW what his/her expectations of eternity are, what would they say?

More specifically, what would JW women say?
What would JW men say?

Do they have expectations for growing in knowledge until they can visit other worlds in spaceships? Or do they believe they'll be able to visit other worlds without them? When resurrected, would they be able to walk through walls as Jesus did, or would they be able to create wormholes just by thinking about it and travel by their own power? And when they had visited every known place in the Universe, what would they do then?

Then there's the anointed class, so called? What will they do during the eternities? In their view, spirit resurrection trumps physical resurrection any day? Why? What will they be able to do that physically resurrected people cannot do? Will they be able to travel at the speed of thought, appear in great glory to the terrestrials? Will they be able to hurl cosmic bolts at asteroids?

Will the anointed class rule the earth and the physically resurrected? Why would the physically resurrected need ruling or governing? If they're perfect, why would they need spirit beings telling them what to do? The GB stripped them of their authority on Earth; how does anyone know if they'll be stripped of their authority in the afterlife?

Eternity is one hell of a long time. Anything the human mind can conceive, even if it's trillions and trillions of years, is only going to be a blink on the road to the future. It's a long time to spend in a garden, painting and learning to play a musical instrument. And how many family reunions can you have before you begin to look for ways of doing them in?

I know the above is facetious at best, but how do you think active, believing JWs would answer? How would YOU have answered when you were an active member?

Did you ever think about it?

. . .

33

Did Jesus lie or just changed his mind?

by EdenOne in

john 7:8-10.

"go up to the festival yourselves.

i'm not going to this festival yet, because my time has not yet fully come.

Cold Steel

Jesus, being perfect and without sin, did not lie. Read in context, and with a much better translation than the NWT, the scripture states:

Then Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil. You go up to this feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, for My time has not yet fully come.” When He had said these things to them, He remained in Galilee. But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. Then the Jews sought Him at the feast, and said, “Where is He?” (New KJV)

There's nothing mysterious or out of place in this story. Jesus explains that while the apostles could move freely and openly at the feast, he would be noticed. He was, after all, a well known and controversial figure in Jerusalem. "The world cannot hate you," he said, "but it hates me...." Had he gone with them, he would have been noticed. That he didn't want. He wanted to remain inconspicuous and if they knew he was there, they would have naturally gravitated to him. Once they were gone, Jesus decided to go to the feast incommunicado. His hunch was correct, for when the apostles showed up, the Jews fully expected to see Jesus in their midst. "Then the Jews sought Him at the feast, and said, 'Where is He?'"

He did not lie; he merely commanded his apostles to go to the feast without him. His time had not yet fully come, meaning it wasn't the right time for him to die. He knew that a confrontation at the feast had the potential of hastening that time and that the apostles had to have plausible deniability. He ordered them to go there because it wasn't his time and he wanted to avoid trouble until it was his time. So they went up and, sure enough, the Jews wanted to know where he was.

So where's the lie? Everything he said was perfectly true and understandable.

Reading the NWT is kind of a waste of time. It's mediocre at its best and is abysmal at its worst.

14

New Light on 1914

by TowerWatch in

recently someone posted a link to the watchtower article explaining why jehovahs witnesses no longer believe that jesus returned in 1914. could someone help me by posting that link again please?

thank you!.

Cold Steel

What was Nebuchadnezzar's condition when the tree was at it's majestic height before it was cut down? He was a glorious king.

That he was, all things considered. But alas, it wasn't Nebuchadnezzar who was driven mad, but Nabonius, a later king. According to one article on this and other discrepancies in Daniel:

A classic example of textual errors caused by “careless transcribers” or “ignorant translators” is contained in the book of Daniel. The events chronicled in the present-day book would have originally been recorded in Hebrew, the early language of the Jews. However, the book of Daniel found in the Hebrew Bible is a combination of Hebrew and Aramaic, the language of the Jews after they returned from Babylon. From Daniel 2:4 through 7:8, the text is in Aramaic. [Dan. 2:4–7:8] It is in this middle section that we find discrepancies between the biblical text and other ancient records. These discrepancies involve the identity of Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonian king who first subdued and then destroyed Jerusalem.
During his forty-year reign, Nebuchadnezzar ruled much of the Near East and rebuilt the great city of Babylon, replete with its hundreds of temples and its world-renowned hanging gardens. Some thirty years before his death in 561 B.C. , he subdued Jerusalem (598 B.C. ), taking its king, Jehoiakim, captive to Babylon and replacing him with Jehoiachin. When Jehoiachin proved disloyal, he was also deposed and replaced by his uncle, Zedekiah. When Zedekiah, too, revolted against his overlord, Nebuchadnezzar attacked the city.
In 586 B.C. , Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, taking the remainder of its people—along with many others from throughout the kingdom of Judah into captivity. (See 2 Kgs. 24–25.) One of the early Jewish captives, Daniel, won favor with the king and became known as a wise and trusted counselor.
Chapters two, three, and four of Daniel purport to contain accounts about Nebuchadnezzar. But only the first and best-known of these—the account of his dream about the great statue destroyed by a stone cut out of a mountainside—is actually about him. The stories in chapters three and four, as well as a reference in chapter five, are actually about another king named Nabonidus, not Nebuchadnezzar. [Dan. 2; Dan. 3; Dan. 4; Dan. 5]
Chapter three recounts that the king “made an image of gold … : he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.” (Dan. 3:1.) When this new idol was set up, a decree went forth that when music sounded, people were to prostrate themselves before the statue.
Chapter four tells of another dream of the king, this time about a great tree that was hewn down by order of God. [Dan. 4] Again Daniel was called upon for an interpretation. The tree, said the prophet, represented the sinful king, who would become mad, living for seven years “with the beasts of the field” and eating grass “as oxen.” (Dan. 4:23–26.) This prophecy was fulfilled when the king “was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles’ feathers, and his nails like birds’ claws.” (Dan. 4:33.) Ultimately, the king was healed, returned to his throne, and praised God. ...
The Dead Sea scrolls found at Qumran in 1948 confirm that Nabonidus, not Nebuchadnezzar, was the mad king. A fragmentary document titled “The Prayer of Nabonidus” tells of a king NBNY (Hebrew uses no vowels) who, while at Tema, was diseased by the God of Israel. A Jewish adviser (no doubt Daniel) counsels him to honor God, reminding him, “Thou has been smitten with this noisesome fever … for seven years because thou hast been praying to gods of silver and stone, which gods are but stock and stone, mere clay.” (Theodore H. Gaster, The Dead Sea Scriptures, 3d ed., Garden City, N.Y.: Anchor Press/ Doubleday, 1976, p. 537.)

Also:

How could such apparent errors have crept into the sacred record? As mentioned earlier, the book of Daniel, from 2:4 to the end of chapter seven, was translated from Aramaic [Dan. 2:4–7:28] (called “Syriack” in the King James Version translation of Dan. 2:4). Obviously, the original Hebrew text was lost. Perhaps the ancient scrolls containing this portion of the book of Daniel disintegrated, as many other ancient scrolls have, and had to be replaced by the Aramaic text.
Although Aramaic is closely related to Hebrew, it would have been an easy translation error to mistake Nebuchadnezzar for Nabonidus. Since neither Hebrew nor Aramaic represents the vowels, Nebuchadnezzar and Nabonidus would have been written (here in English transliteration) NBKDNZR and NBND. Note that all four letters in Nabonidus’s name are found in Nebuchadnezzar’s name, with the last two transposed. A Scribe or Aramaic translator could have easily assumed that NBND in the original Hebrew was an abbreviation for the name of the better-known king Nebuchadnezzar. And once the error was initially made, it would easily have been perpetuated throughout the translation.

54

Brothers told to pack an "Armagedon survival bag."...bid gossip in Aust!

by Witness 007 in

so my mum excitedly calls and tells me how the brothers are now told to pack a survival emergency bag, so the tribulation is coming!!!

talk about clutching at straws.

shes packed her bible of course and the some non essential stuff like food...he he.

Cold Steel

Don't be so silly.

Well, the thing about prophecy is that it either comes to pass or it doesn't. As my economics professor said back in school, if you keep predicting disaster, eventually you'll be right. Mormons don't thrive on or live in an atmosphere of fear, and if they do, they're all keeping it a tight knit secret from me. I have no fear of death nor do I do a lot of hand-wringing about the future. I have a modest food supply and a bugout bag; however, I live in Washington, D.C., and if anything serious hit, I'd be toast. So be it.

Also, I'm much more terrified of my elected representatives than I am of the most rabid terrorist. With $17 trillion in debt, and a president who vacations for a living, one doesn't have to be a prophet to tell that we won't be able to sustain our world power status and our economic wealth as a nation for long.

So don't be so naive.

54

Brothers told to pack an "Armagedon survival bag."...bid gossip in Aust!

by Witness 007 in

so my mum excitedly calls and tells me how the brothers are now told to pack a survival emergency bag, so the tribulation is coming!!!

talk about clutching at straws.

shes packed her bible of course and the some non essential stuff like food...he he.

Cold Steel

Don't forget to keep your handgun in your bag. And make sure you tell the elders.

If they criticize the gun because having it means you don't believe Jehovah can keep you safe, ask them if having the bag means you don't believe Jehovah can save you without your survival bag.

I'm no Jehovah's Witness, but I believe there's a tribultation coming in which the Lord will begin to sweep the earth of the wicked. So if I'm wrong, no worry. But if right, then it doesn't mean the Jehovah's Witnesses are right.

Many religions are expecting bad times.

14

New Light on 1914

by TowerWatch in

recently someone posted a link to the watchtower article explaining why jehovahs witnesses no longer believe that jesus returned in 1914. could someone help me by posting that link again please?

thank you!.

Cold Steel

...the coming of Armageddon has never been linked with Christ's coming.

You're joking, right?

Zechariah states:

The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord , which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. ...
In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (Chapter 12)

And it becomes more detailed in Chapter 14, where Yahweh/Jesus returns, descending upon the Mount of Olives:

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. ... And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Now the Jehovah's Witnesses have two problems here. First, this is clearly speaking of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. It's also talking about the battle of Armageddon. The first problem is that these scriptures refer to the coming of the Lord, Yahweh (Jehovah), but the prophet also makes it clear that it's Christ. "And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced." Clearly this is Jesus. Zechariah also says "the Lord my God shall come." Who is this if not Jehovah?

Recall that when Jesus ascended into heaven, the two angels promised them this is how Jesus would come when he returned. And Jesus ascended where? On the Mount of Olives. He ascended there and will return there. And the prophet identifies the Messiah with Jehovah. How can this be if he is his Son? The only logical conclusion is that Yahweh is not the Father, but the Son. And it makes sense since he's the intercessor between the Father God and man. We also know that Jesus will be king over all the earth, and Zechariah identifies Jehovah as being the one who shall be king over all the earth.

The second problem is that Armageddon isn't taking place all over the world; it's taking place in Jerusalem, in the Middle East. Both of these problems mean only one thing. Old light, new light, the leaders of the Society are wrong. And not to be petty, notice that the very first verse talks about how the Lord "formed the spirit of man within him."

Three strikes and they're out! They got the entire Armageddon prophecy wrong; they misidentified Jehovah as the Father, not the Son; and they're faced with man having a "spirit" (not "breath") within him.

Or have I missed the mark??

6

A gun with one bullet in case you survive armagedon!

by Witness 007 in

imagine a convention that never ended...living bethel style forever where your neighbours were the most pious arrogant self righteous judgemental people you can imagine...and its forever!

singing kingdom songs 3 times a day forever.

witnessing to the ressurected ones with the "whitewashed" version of the truth....dont mention 1925 or 1975 or the "generation.

Cold Steel

But what if the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong? It could be worse...cows could be running the Universe!

Adam and Eve fell so that man could have a resurrection that would be far beyond their wildest dreams. As Paul stated, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (1 Cor. 2:9)

Of course being stuck in a static garden for trillions of years wouldn't be anyone's choice of how to spend the eternities. Had not Adam and Eve fallen, they would have lived forever and amounted to nothing. God not only knew they would fall, he was counting on it! That's the only way they could be "upgraded" to a resurrection that was far superior to anything Adam and Eve could have achieved living forever in a state of innocence. In fact, when Adam and Eve are resurrected, they will be like God in their glory and power.

One more thing, unless you happen to be visiting Jerusalem, you aren't going to be killed in Armageddon. Armageddon will occur when a Gentile prince invades the Holy Land, bent of the destruction of the Jews. He won't be interested in destroying Jerusalem; he wants to occupy the land but rid it once and forever of the Jews. And he'll nearly succeed. Only the return of Christ will stop the carnage.

19

Why send Satan down to earth in 1914 - didn't we have enough problems?

by Xanthippe in

i was just reading an old watchtower quote on another thread, he was quoting it straight from jw.org by the way, and i was astonished to be reminded of this teaching.

why would a loving god crown his son king and then send satan and hordes of demons to our planet?.

we live in a huge universe, why send these monsters here?

Cold Steel

Trying to make sense of JW scriptural exegesis is the first mistake. Satan has always been on Earth (ever since his rebellion in the councils of heaven). John writes that the dragon's tail took one third of the stars and cast them to Earth:

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. (Rev. 12:4)

Satan was cast out in the Beginning and was in the Garden of Eden when man was placed there. His role on Earth is to tempt the children of men and try them, to see if they (knowing good from evil) will choose the good and reject the other. Only during the Millennium will he be bound, and no longer will man be tempted. To say that he had a place in the Kingdom of Heaven until 1914 is a manmade doctrine. God put emnity between Satan and man, so that while he may have power to bruise his heel, man, through Christ, would have power to crush his head.